Made with only olive oil, this pure liquid Castile soap is easy to make and mild. It’s perfect for face and body, and for cleaning around the house.
A couple of years ago, I showed you how easy it was to make a basic beginner soap, even if you’ve never done it before.
Making solid soaps can be a lot of fun, but not everybody likes using bar soap. Many people prefer using something in a dispenser like a shower gel or a liquid soap.
I made many different types of bar soaps before attempting to make a true liquid soap. There aren’t as many resources about making liquid soaps, so I had to do a lot of trial and error before posting this first liquid Castile soap recipe.
Once you find a good recipe, it’s pretty simple to make. While it does take a little more time and effort than whipping up some bars of cold process soap, I think you’ll find that it’s well worth it, especially when you take a look at the price of a store-bought liquid castile soap.
How does liquid soap differ from bar soap?
The main difference between bar soaps and liquid soaps is the type of lye used to make them. Liquid soaps are made with KOH, or potassium hydroxide, rather than NaOH, or sodium hydroxide.
You can read more about the different types of lye in my post about lye and why it is needed in soap.
While some people like to make a “liquid soap” of sorts by diluting bar soaps in water, you can’t really get a true, transparent liquid soap that way. Some people are happy with the result, but every time I’ve tried it, I’ve ended up with a gloopy mess. It doesn’t have the same cleaning power as either a bar soap or a true liquid soap, and the texture and appearance aren’t the same either.
What is pure Castile soap?
Technically, by definition, Castile soap is a type of soap made with only olive oil. The name “Castile” soap originates here in Spain. (You can read more about the origin of Castile soap and other soaps in my post with a recipe for pure Castile bar soap.)
Over the years, the definition of Castile soap has broadened to include other types of vegetable oils such as coconut oil. Dr. Bronner’s liquid Soap, which may be the most famous commercial liquid Castile soap, actually has a greater percentage of coconut oil than olive oil. (I made a Dr. Bronners liquid Castile soap copycat recipe for those who are interested!)
When it came to making a homemade liquid Castile soap, though, I was a bit of a purist and made the real deal: a soap made with only olive oil.
Olive oil in soap
Soaps made with different oils have different properties.
Soaps made with olive oil are more conditioning for your skin than soaps made with coconut oil. On the other hand, they don’t lather up as much as a coconut oil soap, nor do they leave you feeling squeaky clean in the same way (partly because they are more conditioning).
Some people find pure Castile bar soap to be “slimy” and not cleansing enough. On the other hand, pure coconut oil bar soap can be drying.
- Pure coconut oil soaps are great for general cleaning and for laundry. That’s why I made my homemade laundry soap only with coconut oil.
- Pure olive oil soaps tend to be gentle on the skin and great for gentle body cleansing.
Read my post about the properties of different oils in soaps.
Ideally, you’d combine different oils to get the qualities you want for your soap. That’s exactly what they did when they formulated Dr. Bronner’s soap, and what I did when I showed you how to make a basic beginner soap which uses a combination of olive oil and coconut oil.
Combining liquid soaps
When you make a bar of soap, you have to decide what combination of oils you want to use from the very beginning and your entire batch will have that very same combination.
With liquid soaps, though, you have the advantage of being able to combine your various soaps after the fact, making it easier to experiment with smaller combinations until you find the perfect soap for your need.
That’s why I made a pure liquid castile soap, using only olive oil, and then later made a pure liquid coconut oil soap. Once you’ve made both of them, you can combine them, as needed to get the type of soap you want.
Coconut oil liquid soap vs. liquid Castile soap
When I first started making liquid soap, I assumed that liquid soaps would be just like bar soaps. The difference between a pure Castile bar soap and a coconut oil-based bar soap is HUGE!
I was very surprised to find, though, that liquid soap made with coconut oil was actually quite similar to that made with olive oil. Sure, the olive oil-based liquid soap was darker in color than the coconut oil-based liquid soap. For me, that was probably the most notable difference.
Yes, the coconut oil soap does make a bubblier lather than this one and may be slightly more drying. It does give more of a “squeaky clean” feeling.
In the end, though, the difference isn’t as pronounced as I expected. In fact, I normally just make the coconut oil liquid soap recipe these days. I can buy refined coconut oil cheaper than olive oil, but also love the look of a lighter-colored soap. I also love the fresh, subtle scent of the coconut oil soap when left unscented.
Both soaps give a decent lather. They are also both relatively mild for skin. If you have sensitive skin, though, this soap is probably the better choice.
Those who have very sensitive skin may find that they have issues with the higher pH of any soap. In those cases, it may be best to use something like my DIY Baby Wash and Shampoo. (I made it pH balanced for a baby’s delicate skin.)
Ingredients
This soap uses 4 main ingredients: olive oil, potassium hydroxide, water, and glycerin.
You can use extra virgin olive oil or a lighter olive oil. What is important, though, is that you are using pure olive oil. (If it’s not pure olive oil, it may need a different amount of lye.)
For the water, it’s best to use distilled water. Tap water has minerals and may have other impurities that can affect the clarity of your soap.
Why use glycerin when making liquid soap?
One of the methods of making liquid soaps is called the glycerin method. It replaces part of the water with glycerin.
Adding glycerin moves the soap-making process along more quickly. Because I wanted to share a beginner liquid soap recipe, I chose the glycerin method to have this soap be as quick and fool-proof as possible.
Using glycerin may have some other benefits:
- The resulting soap paste dissolves very easily in water. I don’t need to heat the water nor do I need to leave it for days at a time. I can cover my soap paste with distilled water and usually, in a couple of hours, I have a beautiful, clear liquid soap effortlessly.
- Glycerin is a humectant, meaning it draws moisture into the skin. I find that even my liquid coconut oil soap doesn’t feel drying, despite the fact that it hasn’t been superfatted at all. I think the extra glycerin helps to make a really great, hydrating soap that is clear and doesn’t need extra oils. (I think my homemade glycerin bar soap has the same benefits.)
Materials
Procedure
Making a liquid Castile soap isn’t difficult and it can save you a lot of money.
To get the clearest soap we can, we’ll use a hot-process method. That means that we will be cooking the soap. During the cooking process, the saponification process will complete and our soap will be ready to use immediately afterwards. (Liquid soap doesn’t need a curing time in the same way as bar soap does.)
The easiest way to make this and have it come out perfectly is to use a slow cooker. If you don’t have access to a slow cooker, though, you can also try baking it in the oven. (I showed how I used this method in the post and video for the coconut oil liquid soap.)
Making the lye solution
Weigh out the glycerine, water, and potassium hydroxide (KOH).
Add the glycerin to the water and then carefully add the KOH to the water and glycerin mixture. (Not the other way around!) Make the lye solution in a well-ventilated area.
Stir the KOH into the water until it dissolves. It will be cloudy at first, but then it will clear up.
Making the soap paste
Measure out the olive oil and heat it over low heat directly in the slow cooker.
Slowly add in the the KOH mixture to the warm olive oil, and gently stir them together over low heat.
Once combined, use an immersion blender to blend the ingredients together in the slow cooker. In a few minutes the mixture will begin to thicken and look like mayonnaise. Soon after, it will look like a creamy pudding. (If you aren’t doing this over heat, it will take a bit longer.)
A few minutes later, the mixture will begin to look grainy and look like mashed potatoes or applesauce. Continue to blend.
If, at any point, the mixture becomes too thick to blend with the immersion blender, switch to mixing with a spatula or wooden spoon. It’s also a good idea to take breaks during the blending process so as not to burn out the blender.
As you continue to blend, it will start to get creamy again. It is now time to cover it and cook it for a while.
Cooking the soap paste
Cooking the soap paste will allow the soap to finish the saponification process and will also help achieve a perfectly clear liquid soap immediately. The process will take 3-4 hours, and you will want to check on it and stir it up every half an hour or so.
As you cook the mixture, it will begin to thicken up and become more translucent.
To check for “doneness,” we will look to see if our paste is dissolving into a completely clear liquid soap. To do this, take a small amount of the soap paste and dissolve it in water, and look to see if the water is clear once the soap paste is dissolved.
If the liquid is cloudy, you should continue to cook the soap in the slow cooker. Let it cook another half an hour before checking on it again. If it dissolves clear like the soap in my picture, you are finished making the soap paste.
Note: If you aren’t using distilled water, the soap paste may stay cloudy no matter how long you cook it! (For more reasons your soap paste may be cloudy, read my post about troubleshooting liquid soap problems.
How to dilute the soap paste
Once you have made your soap paste, you’ll need to dilute it to obtain a liquid Castile soap.
To dilute a soap paste you can:
- Let it dissolve by itself into water over the course of several hours (or overnight).
- Speed up the process by warming the water and soap paste over the stove or other heat source (like the slow cooker).
For clear soap, use distilled water. That will also help ensure the water is free of contaminants and the soap will keep as long as possible. By choosing distilled water, not only are you keeping the possibility of microbial contamination to a minimum, but you are also ensuring that minerals and other substances in your tap water won’t cloud your soap.
If you are making small batches that are going to be used relatively quickly (and aren’t concerned about clearness), you can probably get away with tap water without any issues. I still recommend using distilled water when possible.
Read more about how to dilute a soap paste here.
Customizing your liquid soap
How else can you personalize your soap?
Adding fragrances
Unlike with bar soap, you can add in additives like essential oils after the fact. So, you don’t have to divide your batch at trace and work quickly to make soaps with a variety of fragrances. Instead, you can make a large batch of concentrated liquid soap paste base. The soap paste can be stored away and keeps well for a very long time. (I’ve successfully stored soap pastes for several years without issues.)
You can then add in the essential oils or fragrance oils as you dilute the soap paste. This gives you the freedom, even months after making the soap, to play with fun combinations.
At the time of dilution, I mix the soap paste with distilled water and then I add essential oils to give my soap a personalized fragrance.
Does it need a preservative?
Whether or not liquid soap needs a preservative is a controversial subject. Personally, I don’t use one as the pH of soap is high enough that it’s not a favorable environment for the growth of most of the microbes that we’re trying to avoid.
If I were going to sell a liquid soap, though, I’d do proper microbial testing of the liquid soap to see if a preservative was needed or not. Most natural preservatives on the market aren’t effective at the high pH of soap anyway. (Euxyl® K 900 is an exception and would be a great preservative to consider for using in soap.)
For more liquid soap FAQ’s, read my post How to Make a Liquid Soap: Start Here.
Video
Easy DIY Liquid Castile Soap Recipe
Materials
Instructions
- Measure out the olive oil and add it to the slow cooker on low heat.
Make the lye solution
- Weigh out the glycerine, water, and potassium hydroxide (KOH).
- Mix the water and glycerin.
- Carefully add the KOH to the water and glycerin mixture. (Not the other way around!) Do this step in a well ventilated area.
- Stir the KOH into the water until it dissolves. It will be cloudy at first, but then it will clear up.
Make the soap paste
- Slowly add in the the KOH mixture to the warm olive oil, and gently stir them together in the slow cooker.
- Once they are mixed together well, use an immersion blender to blend the ingredients together. In a few minutes the mixture will begin to thicken and look like mayonnaise. It will later look like a creamy pudding.
- Shortly afterward, the mixture will begin to look grainy like mashed potatoes or applesauce. Continue to blend.
- As you continue to blend, it will start to get creamy again. Once you reach this point, you can stop blending with the hand held blender and can leave the soap paste cooking covered in the slow cooker.
Cook the soap paste
- As you cook the soap, it will continue to thicken and will become more translucent. To achieve a clear liquid soap we'll need to cook the soap paste for 3-4 hours. During that time, check on it and stir it up every half an hour or so.
Check for doneness
- To check for "doneness," we will look to see if the soap paste dissolves clear. To do this, take a small amount of the soap paste and dissolve it in distilled water. If the resulting soap is clear, the soap is finished cooking. If it's cloudy, continue to cook the soap paste for another half an hour before checking on it again.
Dilute the soap
- To make a liquid Castile soap, dissolve some of the paste in distilled water. I ususally use a ratio of one part soap paste to 2-3 parts distilled water. It can be left overnight to dissolve on its own, stirring ocassionally, as needed. You can also use heat to speed up the process.
Notes
- A slow cooker is perfect for this sort of job because it will gently warm without burning, and keeping things at a steady temperature. If you don’t have a slow cooker, you can bake the paste in an oven or cook it in a double boiler.
- Take breaks while blending so as not to burn out the motor of your immersion blender.
- If at any point the mixture becomes too thick to blend with the immersion blender, switch to mixing with a wooden spoon.
- If you’ve cooked for more than 3-4 hours and it still isn’t clear, there may be other issues. Tap water can give a cloudy soap. For other possibilities, check my post on troubleshooting liquid soaps.
- This recipe makes 4.5-5 lbs. soap paste which can be diluted to 10-20 lbs. soap or more. That ends up being 1-2 gallons, or more, depending upon the desired concentration.
- Keep in mind that liquid soap is not as thick as commercial gels and surfactants. Liquid soap is of a thinner consistency and doesn’t need to be thick to be concentrated and work well.
- Undissolved soap paste can be stored in glass or plastic containers in a cool dry place for more than a year. (I’ve had some for several years without problems.)
DIY liquid body soap recipe:
If you would like to combine this soap with a liquid coconut oil soap to obtain a bit more lather and a squeaky clean feeling, try using this ratio:
60-70% liquid Castile soap (made with only olive oil)
30-40% liquid coconut oil soap (for bubbly lather, link goes to the recipe post)
Essential oils of choice.
Mix all of the ingredients together, and keep a bottle in the shower to use instead of shower gel.
Add essential oils for fragrance. Lavender essential oil gives a lovely herbal scent. I also like citrus blends using lemon and bergamot.
What are your favorites?
This post was originally published on June 29, 2016. It was rewritten and republished in June of 2021, adding new information, more photos, and video.
Juana
Hello Tracy, first of all thanks for the recipes, i already made two of them, the bar soap and the liquid, when i did my first bar soap i was jumping of excitement that i could make soap then i decided to try the liquid, which brings me to this post, i thought i would share with you my experience, so i had the oils warming, i add up the rest of the chemicals, just like the recipe, i dont know if it was to hot, but when i started mixing them, the mixture started boiling out, so i turn off the pot quickly and i started cleaning the soap that had spilled, by the way, it makes a lot of foam, so i was cleaning and cleaning, that rag was squeaky clean, then, i follow the recipe, everything went well, after 3 hrs when i did the test, the liquid was cloudy, so i let it cook another 2 hrs, i did the test again, and still the water was not clear, after 2 extra hrs of cooking i remember about the distilled water, i did the test again with distilled water and it was already done, the tap water was making it cloudy, ok, then i try my fist wash in the washing machine, and it didn’t work, it left my dishes with a white layer and greasy, so, i run the dishwasher twice with vinegar, but the soap works well with hand washing, i use it on everything but the dishwasher. i think one of the problem was that i used two types of coconut oil, i didn’t have on hand all the amount, so i went to get more, and the only one that i found at that moment was one that was unprocessed, with odor, by the ways, that coconut oil smells like rotten coconuts, maybe the mixtures of two different oils made it not be able to use it in the dishwasher. now i dont wait for the paste to melt to wash dishes by hand, i put the paste in a container wide enough to rub my dish sponge over and done, i am from a country where they sell soap for dishes in small container and paste base, so, it works well, thank you, now am waiting to use it all up and make it again, this time with one type of coconut oil, take care.
Tracy Ariza
Hi Juana,
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m glad it worked out for you in the end.
Yes, I only use soap for handwashing too.
In fact, a detergent for the dishwasher is really the only thing I haven’t been able to make successfully. Most are made with “enzymes” and other ingredients that I wouldn’t know how to obtain or use. I still buy little dishwasher tabs from the local ECO supermarket for now.
But, yes, it works wonderfully for hand washing dishes. I use mine for that too!
David
Hi Started making soap yesterday, using half measures, but accurately measured. Everything went as per your tutorial, however the soap remained like milk when ever I tested it. In the end I cooked it for over eight hours with no change, testing and stirring every half hour. Now after cooling overnight it is solid not a paste. Have you any thoughts or is it past redemption and needs to be thrown away?
I hope all is well with you in Spain during these troubling times.
Tracy Ariza, DDS
Hi David,
Do NOT throw it away!
Stop cooking, allow it to cool and separate a small amount out to try diluting with distilled (preferably) water.
Sometimes, it just needs a few days to settle and clear.
It should behave as soap no matter what. The cloudiness after that much cooking should only be aesthetic if you followed the recipe correctly.
Cloudiness can have many reasons. It may be even something as simple as the weather.
Test it out, and then we can talk if it doesn’t resolve on its own. 😉
Oh, and, we’re doing well confined in our houses here. I haven’t left since over a week ago when we had a last lunch at my mother-in-law’s house before they imposed mandatory confinement. Luckily, I love my home and my family. Sending love and hope to wherever you are too!
Holly
Hello! I just spent the last couple days making a diy Castile soap (not your recipe) with olive oil and coconut oil. It was a huge disaster. It literally ate the enamel off my crock pot. I thought everything was wasted but this morning I finally got it completely clear without any chunks. But as soon as it gets cold it turns white and opaque. It is diluted, but is there anything else I can do to salvage this? I hate wasting supplies. Thank you!!!
Tracy Ariza
Hi Holly,
I’m sorry to hear that!
Were you using KOH and not NaOH? Does it appear to be solid or is it a paste?
Can I maybe see the recipe to get a better idea?
It’s really hard for me to know what’s going on. I’ve definitely never had a liquid soap eat away at the crock pot. Normally the reaction of the lye and oil takes place immediately, so there is really little lye leftover while it’s cooking. That said, a lot of people formulate their recipes to have a lye excess to help ensure that the liquid soap will be transparent.
Jez
Hi, first of all, thank you for sharing this! I have no experience in soap making at all but I really want to try it to help with saving money. I see that the 2 main base here are olive oil and coconut oil. Can I add another moisturzer to the mix, like shea butter? Also can I add coloring to it just for fun look or will coloring mess up the mixture? Thanks!
Tracy Ariza
Hi Jez,
Any changes that you make will completely change the soap and will mean that you will have to run the recipe through a lye calculator to ensure that you will end up with a viable soap. I’d recommend beginning with a recipe like this one and then later on you can get a better idea about changing up the recipe. (Also, just because an oil is moisturizing doesn’t mean that a soap made with it will be. The oils change completely during the chemical reaction.)
As for the colorings. Yes, you can add a coloring to the soap at trace and then pour it into molds. You can even divide up the soap and experiment with different colors. This recipe has a pretty long working time, so you should be able to play with the mixture a bit. A soap made with more coconut oil would have a lot shorter working time, for example.
Marcia Reed
I have finished my first batch of olive/coconut liquid soap and am happy with the results. Unfortunately, I did not know when to add the essential oils and added it after diluting the paste and it just seemed to float or gel without mixing so I have very little fragrance. Do I add it with the diluting water? Thanks in advance.
Tracy Ariza
Hi Marcia,
I always add in the EO’s when I dilute too (but I usually have a thick dilution-with less water-ready that I use first. I add my EO’s and then add more water to further dilute. So, that may be why I don’t have any issues.) Normally, because you are adding such a small amount of oil, the emulsifying properties of the soap are enough to incorporate the oils.
You could definitely try incorporating the oils better by taking the oils and mixing them with the soap paste first, right before adding the water. The soap has solubilizing properties, but maybe they aren’t working for you because there is too much water when you are adding them and that is causing you problems.
(You can buy commercial solubilizers and you are supposed to use them in that way- you mix the oils with the solubilizer before adding the water-based ingredients for them to work properly, so it would make sense that it would be best to do it that way with soap too!)
I hope that made sense!
Brittany
Hi I tried your this recipe and I love it! I’m excited to try the coconut oil soap as well. I was just wondering if there are any natural preservatives that I could use in the soap so it will last longer? Also what step would I incorporate the preservative? How long does this soap stay good as the paste and once it is diluted? Once again absolutely love your site! Thanks in advance ?
Tracy Ariza
Hi Brittany,
Thanks so much. I’m happy it went well for you.
The coconut oil one has become my favorite! 🙂
With soap, you don’t really have to worry about preservatives because the pH of soap is high enough that the soap should self preserve itself for up to a year! (I’m basing that on a discussion I had once with a professional cosmetic formulator who told me that products with a pH below 4 or higher than 9 normally keep up to a year without preservatives.) That beats out a lot of the more natural preservatives, most of which won’t work at the high pH range of soap anyway. 😉
With that in mind, don’t add weird ingredients to your soap when you dilute it if you want it to keep for a long time. Any time you add something organic- anything plant-based or food-like- you’re reducing the time it will keep, and it’s almost impossible to judge by how much. (Think of people adding coconut milk to their product.) Also, don’t add anything that will lower the pH too much. The soap could fall apart, and it won’t keep as long.
I still like to keep most of my batch undiluted because it will keep even longer that way. I’ve had a few batches for way more than a year (maybe more than 2 by now) as sort of an experiment. They look to be just as good as they were when I first made them.
clarice
Hi Again!
I am in the middle of making my first batch of this. I am very suspicious that my crock pot (even though it is set to low) is significantly too hot / hotter than yours. Here is what has happened. I am at the 1 hour mark, and the mix is dry as a bone. I can see a few chunks / bits of translucence, so that is heartening, but it is virtually impossible to stir. To give a baking analogy, if this were an attempt to cream flower and butter, you would think I had added at least 2X the amount of flour called for. I am going to see if I can get some movement with a potato masher – but i am not super confident! I am tempted to add some distilled water to moisten it a bit, if I end up doing that, I will report results. For the future – can you estimate the temperature at which a successful batch would be cooked? Thank you very much, Clarice
Clarice
OK- I left the mess to cook in the crock pot, and checked it every 30 minutes and mashed it with a potato masher. Much to my surprise it DID revert back to a very thick, moderately creamy texture. Ultimately, it ended with a hard-ish semi-translucent paste that i had to chunk out of the crock pot when it cooled. It does not dissolve easily – but when a bit is cooked with water and then blended with an immersion blender, it does finally go into solution. I am going to try this recipe again, on an induction cook-top with controlled temperature, using a double boiler technique. Thanks!
Tracy Ariza
Did you ever try it with the other method?
Tracy Ariza
I see I missed your last question…
I think that most slow cookers cook around 190-200ºF when on the low setting.
I’d try to keep it around there or less.
Christa Szabo
Hello,
I apologise if this question has already been posted, but is there a way to make this soap without glycerin? If so, does the recipe need to be altered? I can’t wait to try this recipe!
Thanks
Tracy Ariza
Hello Chris,
Yes, you can just sub the glycerin for water.
The glycerin serves several purposes:
1) It moves the process along more quickly, making the soap making more fool proof.
2) It makes for a milder soap.
3) It may make for a paste that dissolves more easily.
Saba
Hello!
I am so excited to try making this soap. But could I make it on a stovetop instead of a slow cooker…? How would convert the recipe?
Thanks so much,
Saba
Tracy Ariza
Hi Saba,
Yes, you could either make this in the oven or on the stovetop. The problem with the stovetop is that it may be difficult to keep the heat low and cook it evenly without the bottom burning. That’s really what you’ll need to try to do- cook it at a low heat for a long period of time without allowing the paste to burn. You could perhaps use a double boiler or try at very low heat, moving more constantly. You can also spread it over a baking sheet and bake at a low temperature.
Clarice
Hi there – thank you for these recipes! And your well written informative blog!
I have been struggling to make a whipped sugar scrub soap – i.e., a scrub that foams, and has a sort of paste-like consistency. All of the recipies I have found say the same thing “start with XYZ whipped soap base”. I would really rather make mine own base so that I know what is going into the mix!
Do you think this liquid castille soap might be a candidate for a “base” for a soapy sugar scrub?
Thank you so much, C
Tracy Ariza
Hi Clarice,
Interesting. I haven’t tried something like that. I’m not sure if the water content would dissolve the sugar. I’d think you’d want more of a “Cream” soap, something I haven’t played with too much yet.
What I love to do is to make emulsified sugar scrubs. Have you tried that? It doesn’t foam, but it does get sort of lotion-y. (Is that a word? Ha!)
I use mine to clean my arms, legs, and even face and love the way it leaves my skin.
I can definitely look into the cream soap for a foaming scrub, though. I’ll add it to my “To-do” list. 🙂
Clarice
Thank you! I will try the emulsified recipes and see how they go – and will also try to use your liquid castille – and will certainly let you know how it goes. I have some very fine pumice powder that perhaps i could use with the castille – given your very salient comment about the water content and sugar. All the best, Clarice
Clarice
I should have mentioned I am trying to replicate the Pacha whipped soap scrub – super yummy, but $$$ at $12 for a smallish jar. I also want to get away from various additives. Thanks again, C
Mike Izdebski
What kind of POH are you using? Is it 90%. Does it matter?
Tracy Ariza
Hi Mike,
Yes, mine is also around 90%.
That’s typical because there is some moisture in there. That’s what they are accounting for in the 10%.